Sunday, September 27, 2009

The Biblical Jesus ~ It Depends on which Bible You Mean.


The Bible . . . Is it a book given to us by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, written by men, infallible and inerrant or is it a book sort of inspired by God but written by men whose political and social agendas tainted its content?

Is it a book that God has allowed to become corrupted over time to include errors in translation, errors in the historical record, and filled with fictional stories made up by men? Is it a book that has no absolute truth but is completely pliable in the hands of anyone who reads it, able to be interpreted any way we choose? Can we pick out the parts we want to believe and set aside those we don't? Can we pick out the parts that make us happy and comfortable, using them as if they are accurate or relevant but scrap the parts the make us uncomfortable, claiming them to be inaccurate or irrelevant?

Does it matter really? I mean, so what if we come at this book from totally different positions. We all love Jesus, right? But what Jesus do we love? And was he really here? And did he really perform miracles? And did he really die on the cross? And did he really rise from the dead? If we claim in any form or fashion that the Biblical record is unreliable then we have absolutely no right or ability to make any statements about its truth or quote from it. If we can't believe it we certainly shouldn't base our lives on it. Unless of course, we see it as a book that has some good things to grab a hold of like "Chicken Soup for the Soul" then we can, I guess, just pick out the parts that make sense to our lives and leave the rest for the right wing Jesus freaks (Like me)

Here is the issue, at hand, and one that I believe is monumental to the Christian faith: The Gospel of Jesus Christ stands or falls on what we see the Bible to be. Many today claim that the Bible is not a document that has solid, unchangeable truth but is moldable and shapable to the reader. It can be interpreted as we see fit. I want to give a couple examples to make this more clear:
The Old Testament reveals a God who is the creator of all things including man. When man sinned God revealed not just his love for man but also his holy justice with regard to sin. It revealed a God who demonstrated some serious wrath against sin and sinful man. Now, those who claim that the Bible isn't to be taken literally, claim that this is just the story of an ancient people who fought other nations with their own political and religious motives. So then they can forgo any aspect of God that might seem intolerant, harsh, violent, or contrary to their religious beliefs. It was man's evil not God's wrath. One quick note regarding the description of Bible believers as "Literalists" (ie. they take the Bible literally). We can be smart enough to understand that when Jesus said, "I am the vine . . " or when Jesus was called, "the Lamb of God" that Jesus wasn't a vine or a lamb. But we can also see that when Jesus said, "The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations." He said, "In his name." What name? Jesus.

The New Testament reveals the story of a man named Jesus who was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, performed miracles, died on a cross, and rose from the grave three days later. It claims Jesus to be God in the flesh who died for the sins of man. But Jesus was not always the gentle soft spoken peacemaker but made many claims about himself and about the judgment to come. But many today leave out all of the statements Jesus made about judgment, hell, and repentance. They leave out any statement that precludes salvation via any other person other than Jesus Christ. They do so by claiming that those who read the whole of scripture do so in a literal fashion while they themselves leave room for a much bigger God who can make the Bible all things to all men. Jesus can be their Lord and their Savior and their truth, way, and life but he is not for those of other faiths. Kind of like flag day. It is for us but not for Japan.

Can this be true? Can we both be right and does it matter? Can we ever preach from the Word and teach a church full of hearers from scriptures if we claim the Bible is not reliable and is only relevant or true to those who want them? Can we preach "I am the way and the truth and the life." as some sort of biblical feel good but claim that the next verse, "No one comes to the Father but through me." not to be true?

This is way more than can be addressed in a 10 minute blog post so we will be hanging here for a couple weeks. But, I want to share a couple things to start. First, if we believe Jesus lived and was divine (ie. God) then we should look at what he thought about the Old Testament and its reliability. Jesus quoted from twenty four of the Old Testament books and stated that he didn't come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it." Jesus spoke of Jonah's time in the belly of the fish, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's wife who was turned to a pillar of salt, and he quoted many of the prophets. Did Jesus believe that the Old Testament was corrupted in its translation or the product of the minds of man? No! Paul believed that all scripture was "God breathed" and even if you claim he was talking about only the Old Testament then we can start there. Lastly, when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found they contained a near complete copy of the book of Isaiah dated to around one hundred years before the birth of Christ. These texts from Qumran proved to be word-for-word identical to our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The 5 percent of variation consisted primarily of obvious slips of the pen and spelling alterations (Archer, 1974, p. 25).

The dilemma is this: If we claim the Biblical documents to be less than what Jesus and the Apostles believed them to be then we preach a Gospel that strips Jesus of his Lordship and of his Divinity. We make faith in Christ unnecessary for salvation and relegate Jesus to one of many religious leaders who taught us a better way to live. We can cut and paste the verses of the bible and use them as personal and social improvement tools and deny the truths we don't like.

Maybe God wasn't powerful enough to maintain the accuracy or truth of his Word and allowed it to be made virtually meaningless. Maybe the writings of Mohammad, Buddha, Krishna, Joseph Smith, Stephen King, and Mark Twain are all equally valid. Maybe Jesus didn't really exist and was just a fictitious character made up by these men, who for some crazy reason gave their lives to tell people about him. Maybe Paul didn't really meet Jesus on the road to Damascus and was later told what to preach. Maybe he just didn't like living high on the hog as a wealthy Jewish leader but instead wanted to see what it was like to be flogged, stoned, shipwrecked, beaten with fists, imprisoned, and beheaded for sharing the whole, uncompromising Gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. Maybe.

Although we can believe that how we see the Bible makes little difference as long as we all "love Jesus" it is not so. Either Jesus is the One and Only Son of God, God in the flesh, the name above all names, God with us, the name to which every knee will bow, the Judge of the living and the dead, the King of Kings, the one through whom all things were made, or he is not. If he is then we better get back to proclaiming him to all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit and not trusting that those without Christ can climb in another way. Jesus said he was THE way and not a way.

Stay tuned friends. Much more to come.

Peace, David

9 comments:

  1. I believe He is the way, the truth, and the life. It can not be both true and not true.

    Keep on writing David.....

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  2. Once again you have made me think about things in a way I hadn't previously. Can you tell me how though someone believes 99% of the Bible they can't seem to wrap their mind around 1 key point? Other than prayer how can they learn to accept that key point?

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  3. We have to remember that God is God and we are not. There will be MUCH we can't wrap our mind around (eternity, God knowing our words before we speak them but we still have free will, heaven, etc.) Asking God through prayer to either help us to understand or better yet, to have faith that it is so, is the best we can do this side of eternity. One last thought, some of the things we don't understand come to us through others futher along the journey so don't be afraid to ask other believers but always test their answer through prayer and against the light of scripture. Peace.

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  4. A few questions pertinent to your post:

    1. Is slavery -- the forced ownership of another human being -- ever a correct cultural option?

    Pursuant to (1), is beating one's slave such that she is unable to walk until a day later an action which should go unpunished?

    2. Is polygyny and concubinage ever appropriate to a given culture?

    3. Is arranged marriage (that is, without mutual consent of [both] parties) ever appropriate for a given culture?

    4. Does an appropriate punishment for rape include requiring the victim to marry the offender?

    5. Is it ever appropriate to commit infanticide?


    Your answers should shed some light on the thesis of this post, as well as the question posted by 'anonymous.'

    --
    Stan

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  5. Good Questions Stan and I would love to shed some light regarding these topics as they relate to the Truth of scripture:

    1) Regarding slavery: If by slavery you mean the forced captivity of another based on race or social status, the answer is no, never. The Bible reveals a God who condemned Egypt for enslaving the Jewish people and he set them free.

    God strictly forbade this practice and it's punishment was revealed in Exodus 21:16 "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death."

    Now to clarify the word slavery as used in the Bible. The practice of slavery was often not as we would define it. For instance, the word was used to describe those who were indentured to pay a debt they could not pay. They didn't have Chapter 11 lawyers in that day to get them out of their debt so they sold themselves to their debtors for a certain amount of time to settle the debt. Others who were poor or unable to care for themselves often willingly sold themselves to another to have their needs met.

    Paul in writing to Timothy said this:” We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine." He told those who were under slavery to be obedient so that their testimony for Christ would be unblemished and their masters might see the light of the Gospel.

    2) Regarding Polygamy and concubinage: Clearly in the Old Testament, having multiple wives or concubines was a common practice. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. God revealed in Genesis the monogamous model but didn't condemn the practice as time went on. Why? The Bible doesn't clearly state a reason but let me put forth three possible reasons why God permitted it. a. In Patriarchal societies it was nearly impossible for an unmarried woman to care for herself. They would often resort to prostitution or slavery. Second, there were many more woman then men as a result of war, and for the same reason, these woman went uncared for. The New Testament reveals a restitution of the monogamous marriage God initiated in the garden, Paul says of spiritual leaders, 'They must be the husband of one wife.”

    More to follow!

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  6. Continued -

    3) Arranged marriage: The first marriage in the Bible was arranged. As far as we know, Eve did not specifically consent to her relationship with Adam but then again if she opened her eyes and said, "get lost dude" we don't know if God would have forced her to marry him.. I imagine since they weren't as prideful, vain, and selfish as we are they were very happy with the arrangement. Forced marriage against one's will is never right but arranged marriages per se aren't de-facto evil.

    4) I assume you are specifically looking at Deuteronomy 22:28. It was written in the Law that the man who violated an unbetrothed woman he had to pay the father and then marry the woman. Do I understand this passage of scripture in light of modern society? But then again, I watch TV and wonder what we have become. I watch the football game with my 7-year-old son and watch commercials for male enhancement and watch jeans commercials were people simulate copulation. God had some harsh rules in the Old Test. but people are now and have been sinful and broken.

    5) Infanticide: God commanded the nation Israel to destroy nations who were idolaters and instructed them to kill everyone including woman and children. Was it appropriate? Seeing that the God of creation demanded it, the answer at that time was yes. That being said, how can that be reconciled? The children belonged to God in the first place and if he chose to take them home rather than having them brought up to be separated from his love in a nation that followed God's of wood and stone, that is his prerogative. Can I imagine this today? No. Clearly, God was preserving the nation Israel so that the Messiah could come and set the world free from sin and all that you have brought up here. We are stuck in time and as we see it, death and forced marriage are evil but in the perspective of eternity both may have played out for the better. Paul said, "To live is Christ and to die is gain." Why would death be gain? To be in the presence of God in heaven far outweighs any temporal pleasure here. This holds true for the children God reclaimed in the Old Test. as well (also the first born males of Egypt who God took home... this was Angle of Death infanticide per se. God is God and I am not. Difficult for sure and I don't have all the answers. I don't want to give trite answers where no clear answer is revealed in the Word.

    Lastly Stan, I would put forth this challenge to you and one that I did myself. I was once an "Ex-Christian" as you have described yourself. (I actually don't really believe there is such a thing - more likely an ex-church goer) When I come to a place where God's existence went from an academic exercise to an imperative need then it changed. I, for the first time in my life approached a God I wasn't sure existed and asked his to reveal himself to me. I needed to know if he was real and if this Jesus was truly who he claimed to be. Quite frankly, if not then this life has little meaning. We're born, we live (for good and bad) then we die. What changed Stan was that I, for the first time, came humbly before him really wanting to know the truth. I challenge you to do the same. If you want to know the truth (I mean really want to know and not just prove your position) then ask God (even if you aren't sure if he is). The Bible says, "What good father would give his son a stone if he asks for bread?" I believe God will draw you near if you truly come with a humble heart. I can see that you are a passionate and gifted man and challenge you to do that.

    Peace in Christ,

    David

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  7. If by slavery you mean the forced captivity of another based on race or social status, the answer is no, never.

    I mean slavery -- the ownership of a human being. Your qualifiers are unnecessary and disingenuous, which will be shown based on my response to the rest of your answer.

    The Bible reveals a God who condemned Egypt for enslaving the Jewish people and he set them free.

    That's untrue. The bible actually reveals a god who hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't release the Hebrews, apparently because he wanted to inflict much on the Egyptians in the way of vengeance and general discomfort. It also reveals a god who later details just how much beating a slave-holder can inflict upon his property, decrees how slaves can be acquired, and in fact commands that virgin girls be taken as slaves by conquering Hebrew forces (which directly implies rape, no less).

    If you stand by your answer, that slavery is never a valid option, then you must admit that the bible directly commands, endorses, and even regulates a practice which you would describe as immoral.

    In Patriarchal societies it was nearly impossible for an unmarried woman to care for herself.

    Irrelevant. The Hebrews lived under a theocracy, with god directly controlling the society. If polygyny/concubinage are "bad," he could have, and should have, said so. If a Patriarchal society is not the most efficient version of society, he could have, and should have, said so. If an unmarried woman could not care for herself, he could have, and should have, detailed just how they could receive care without resorting to allowing polygyny and concubinage -- if those practices are considered "bad." I mean, he made sure to forbid wearing polyester, or drinking milk with a bite of hamburger...

    Since he did not [detail appropriate care for women without resorting to polygyny/concubinage], my question remains -- are polygyny and concubinage appropriate or not?

    Second, there were many more woman [sic] then [sic] men as a result of war, and for the same reason, these woman [sic] went uncared for.

    Also irrelevant -- for one, my earlier answer regarding commanding the care for [women] still holds, but worse, the bible details instances in which women and children were commanded to be slaughtered following war, so clearly this was an option available to god. If polygyny and concubinage are "bad," then he could just as easily had these extra women terminated.

    I also wonder why god didn't adjust the wombs of women such that there would be few, if any, women left over following a war...

    Forced marriage against one's will is never right but arranged marriages per se aren't de-facto evil.

    That doesn't answer my question. My question was as follows:

    Is arranged marriage (that is, without mutual consent of [both] parties) ever appropriate for a given culture?

    The bible clearly depicts situations in which a woman's consent was not considered, as well as situations (as above) following war in which women were forcibly married or taken into concubinage. Please address the question asked.

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  8. Stan,

    As we proceed in our dialogue I would ask that you refrain from passing judgement on my motives or the sincerity of my explanations. If I wasn't interested in truth, I wouldn't have posted your comments. As you know, I have both posted them and attempted to answer each and every one. The qualifiers surrounding the question of slavery are indeed relevant and even if you find them irrelevant, the adjective "disingenuous" can only be used if you know my heart and my motives. That being said, I find it highly relevant whether the "ownership" of another human being is forced and unjust or is to pay a debt owed. I find no injustice in the payment of a debt through time and work. The alternative of debtor's prison is less just because a debtor would have no opportunity to satisfy the debt if imprisoned.

    Let's move on to the "hardening of Pharaoh's heart": The best explanation of this I have found is in this article which I think would be best passed on with this link as opposed to my expounding here.

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/print/2259

    As far as my comment regarding Patriarchal societies, it is again indeed very relevant that unmarried women could not care for each other. I stated that God didn't make puppets or robots nor did he reach his hand to earth to make right all that had been made wrong in the fall. He didn't stop up the wombs because he chose not to. Likewise, he hasn't cured cancer, prevented the birth of child abusers, or prevented global warming but the Bible says there is a Day appointed when he will make all things new. I find it interesting that you would suggest what God should or shouldn't say. As far as I can tell you haven't listened to the things he did say so why suggest he say more?

    If God commanded Israel in the Old Test. to put an end to certain idolatrous nations including women and children that is his prerogative as I have discussed previously. Death is not the end game. We see it as such, so when God commanded the army of Israel to take another nation it was for his purposes and I would submit that we will see the justice in it on the other side of eternity. If he chose to allow polygamy within the nation of Israel (a nation who believed in and worshiped God) and grow the nation, it is again his prerogative.

    Answer to your question about arranged marriage: Yes, if God commanded it. They heard directly from God and if he had a divine plan which included arranged marriage then so be it..

    More to follow....

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  9. Stan,

    I know you don't like these answers because you are coming from the perspective of an "Ex-Christian". I personally have come to see the power of God and the grace of God in some of the most amazing ways so I can trust that God's view of creation and his view of the hearts of men and woman so dwarfs mine that most of these questions I can chew on but not have them crush my faith. He is God and I am not. I also am quite sure that most who have walked away from God have done so not because of difficulties with Biblical history, apparent contradictions, or the wrath of God but have done so because they hold pride and unrepentant sin in their hearts. I don't know your heart or you journey of faith (into and out of Christianity) so I don't know if this pertains to you or not. That is between you and God.

    Stan, you are a talented and well read debater and I thank you for sticking around. I have to say, that as much as I love apologetics, I love God more. I have seen from and heard from God in ways that have rocked my world and I have NO doubt about the God of the Bible. I came in not by having all of my questions answered (and as a well educated man, I had many) but my encountering God than have had faith that comes only by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Again, I know that is meaningless to you because you seek facts. God hasn't yet nor do I expect him to provide me with all of the answers.

    We have had visitors from 23 countries and 48 states and you have been the most passionate contributer so I solute you!

    I think I previously challenged you to humble yourself and ask God to share with you the truth. I mean if you REALLY want to know the truth, you can argue the tough questions and do research and look for proofs or you can ask God for your heart to know... If you don't believe in Him but have an honest desire to know the truth regardless of where it takes you then what do you have to lose? If you are afraid you might get the truth then don't ask Him..

    your call...

    Peace Stan.. David

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Please feel free to post a comment or question. This is meant to be a dialogue not a monologue. Look forward to hearing from you!